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IceDragon
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Joined: 03 Apr 2014
Posts: 479
Location: Argentina

PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 12:01 pm    Post subject: The Quest for All Cartoons? Reply with quote

(This one was kinda rushed. Sorry about that).

Ya know? I have lots of great memories from my childhood, and I always like to take a deep breath and look back to the things I used to enjoy... the problem is that those are just that: golden memories that are gone... or at least that is what I thought at first, because I have heard a very weird rumor regarding one of those things, and It if it´s actually true, that might complete a full circle of enjoyment to me.

In the year 1994, Argentinian broadcast compañy PRAMER launched the very first cartoon channel of the country: The Big Channel... that thing was well worthy of the title, and the actual reason that I like cartoons. That´s right, that was the channel that lured me into cartoons, in what would eventually turn into a great trip that lasted to this very day. Not only that, but it was also the main reason behind my favorite genre of animation (animal cartoons) with a grid consisting in mostly them: Legends of Treasure Island, The Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog, Samurai Pizza Cats, and Urikupen Kyujotai, just to name a few... I used to spend an entire day just staring at the TV Screen... but that wasnt all that was to it either!

The people who ran the channel during it´s entire existence could easily be qualified as «Business Wizards», because that´s what they were. A 90% of the bills were paid only with a great deal of advertising... of american toys! We got to see excellent commercials of those toys in between the programs (fully dubbed into spanish too!) and those things were so common, people actually considered them part of the schedule. Everything was great, but unfortunately, that golden era didnt last.

In 1995, PRAMER launched yet another cartoon channel, named Magic Kids. This one took everything that made BIG cool, and multiplied it a hundred times. Suddenly, most people seemed to forgot about BIG, and tunned Magic instead, leaving all the other channels of the time abandoned. Magic Kids truly overshadowed The Big Channel (what a strange comercial move, isnt it?) and was superior in almost every aspect... because while TBC was great, it had its limitations... most of their cartoons were either american or japanese, but Magic bought way more stuff, and we had things from all over the globe (plus some local productions) to watch.

A few years later, I was entirely focused into Magic Kids, and loved every second of it... very rarely I checked the BIG Channel, and I did never stay there for long anymore. Magic was killing it!

Another problem was that the advertising company that brought us all those fantastic commercials went in bankrupcy and the commercials were no more. That destroyed a big part of the charm that the channel had, and forced it to do sacrifices in order to stay on air. Not long from there, PRAMER was only feeding the signal with cheaper programs or those that stopped their runs on the Magic´s schedule. It finally disappeared in early 2000.

By that time, Magic was getting huge, and due both popular demand and a curious case of «signal stealing», their managers decided to export it to all Latin-America. Great move, but it was doomed from the very start... in 2001 an atrocious economic crisis hit the region and caused the channel to stop broadcasting their more expensive series. Those anime´s that I used to love were vanished literally overnight... I was really hooked at the time, and the channel made me a huge fan of most of their cartoons (they only needed two seconds of the intro on a saturday night, to made me love pokémon still to this very day) but those went off the air and were replaced really quickly. I knew that the thing was mortally wounded the time I saw Slam Dunk -which started airing on January- being replaced with another animé... I dont remember exactly which, but I found it pretty boring. That happened all the time, actually, and we didnt want to get hooked with anything, because we knew it would eventually be taken off the air. In fact, I only remember liking one: Pelswick. After it´s final run, I finally left the channel for good, not only for its downfall of quality, but also beacuse I was starting high school and I just didnt have the time to «waste» there. Years later, I found out that they managed to survive until early 2006, when they finally lost the battle.

Well, that´s the backstory... hope you enjoyed it, but let´s move on to the main reason of this post: the thing is that I actually thought that two bankruptcys would drag PRAMER to the bottom... but no!, in fact... they are running six channels now. A 10% of my Cable package belongs to them nowadays (but unfourtanelly, none of those channels it´s for kids... I guess that lost your two signals kinda puts you off the mood).

The rumor I mentioned before basically says that after the deceased of Magic Kids, PRAMER did not sell their IP of both channels, and all those tapes might be stored in they headquaters still to this day. And that means a LOT, because not only all the series that an entire generation grew up with -and are really hard to find- might be out there, but also fully dubbed into spanish. That´s just too good to be true.

I like to watch my cartoons on english, I really do, but that unfortunately means that I have to pay special atenttion to all the words that the characters say, or else I risk missing part of the plot or a joke... and sometimes I just dont feel like it. I love the voice acting on the english and english dubbed series -and I think they are in many ways superior- but, as I said, having to pay extra attention to a toon, kinda ruins it for me... at times.

What do you think, guys? could it be real or is it just another blank internet rumor?

Thanks for reading!

PS: I know it kinda sounds worthless thinking about this -they wont exactly give this things away, and they definitely wouldn't broadcast them either- but the mere fact that they may exists, brings me hope... they could eventually make their way onto YouTube or something, like other ones previously did. I´d like to watch and listen to them once more.



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Mayor West
Totally Bitchin'


Joined: 13 Dec 2013
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Location: Quahog, Rhode Island

PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope for your sake and everyone in Argentina, that these somehow become available. What a huge cultural find. And like you said, even if they just find their way to youtube or somewhere online that would be great.

I am similarly interested in a program that a company purchased all the original filmed episodes for. Though they aim to digitally restore all 250+ episodes, they may never be broadcast or put on home media due to contracts and distribution rights essentially being lost. Maybe they'll leak onto the internet, or better yet, find a way to produce home media again.

So I truly hope for all those great memories of yours to be relived again. I always try to support studios whom put out new collections, even if I wasn't a huge fan of the program, for the sake of those who were and encourage the studios to see that it is worthwhile to do home media releases.

Good luck and keep us posted!


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MacGyver
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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well said, Mayor West. Smile Cool
I hope those fond memories can again be rediscovered and hopefully captured onto home media for the general public's enjoyment.



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SharpFork
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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting. It would all depend on the licensing agreements between PRAMER and the US, Japan, etc. production companies of these cartoons. I know with US networks the original studio will occasionally reclaim the dubbed version, this is why the English version of 'Ultra Seven' is not available on DVD, Tsuburaya did not like the English version so they will not release it.
Also, the thing with TV Broadcasting companies is that a lot of important materials end up in the trash when they move buildings, downsize, move locations, etc. Its sad to say but sometimes people just dont care or realize the significance of the film prints or tapes. Thats why the English dub of 'Prince Planet' was thought to be lost (until film prints were found at a flea market in the 90s) and why 'The Amazing 3' only has a few episodes in circulation, an employee literally pulled the prints out of the garbage can at a CBS affiliate network!!!!

So my best idea for you is to actually contact PRAMER, ask if they have these cartoons in their library and if so explain the cultural importance of these Spanish dubbed versions and if they may even be willing to release them to you so you could produce digital back-ups if they have not done so yet.


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IceDragon
Totally Bitchin'


Joined: 03 Apr 2014
Posts: 479
Location: Argentina

PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mayor West wrote:
I hope for your sake and everyone in Argentina, that these somehow become available. What a huge cultural find. And like you said, even if they just find their way to youtube or somewhere online that would be great.

I am similarly interested in a program that a company purchased all the original filmed episodes for. Though they aim to digitally restore all 250+ episodes, they may never be broadcast or put on home media due to contracts and distribution rights essentially being lost. Maybe they'll leak onto the internet, or better yet, find a way to produce home media again.

So I truly hope for all those great memories of yours to be relived again. I always try to support studios whom put out new collections, even if I wasn't a huge fan of the program, for the sake of those who were and encourage the studios to see that it is worthwhile to do home media releases.

Good luck and keep us posted!


As always, a great comment by you, my friend.

I recently found out that the National TV Archive was storing a great part of the commercials and cuts of The Big Channel. They are all short shots, the quality it´s kinda bad, and they have put watermarks all over them... but still, that alone shows some true effort into prevent this to fall into the darkness. That´s said, there is a long way from there to confirm (or deny, why not?) that the other tapes -the full ones- actually exists.

*sniff* That voice acting was glorious.

In what serie are you interested on? that´s sounds cool... I couldnt easily list a bunch that lasted longer than 100 episodes, and the digital work they are planning to put in sounds truly amazing. I wish that more cartoons will eventually receive that kind of treatment in the near future.

Quote:

Well said, Mayor West. Smile Cool
I hope those fond memories can again be rediscovered and hopefully captured onto home media for the general public's enjoyment.


Thanks man, I wish you could watch them someday. Not that you haven't already done that, but... in another language, and with an assortment of little changes (like music and sound effects).

In fact, I could link you to the very few that I found so far, if you wish Smile

Quote:
Interesting. It would all depend on the licensing agreements between PRAMER and the US, Japan, etc. production companies of these cartoons. I know with US networks the original studio will occasionally reclaim the dubbed version, this is why the English version of 'Ultra Seven' is not available on DVD, Tsuburaya did not like the English version so they will not release it.


Great comment, man. Thanks a lot Smile

I would guess that PRAMER has the tapes but no the rights anymore. Also, they did never attempted to release a home media version of their products, but that might be due their constant re runs on TV.

I dont know what kind of licence they have there, but now that I think about it: other than a magazine and a few toys, I have never saw them pushing they IP forward. Mmm... they maybe ARE tied up with this.

Quote:
Also, the thing with TV Broadcasting companies is that a lot of important materials end up in the trash when they move buildings, downsize, move locations, etc. Its sad to say but sometimes people just dont care or realize the significance of the film prints or tapes. Thats why the English dub of 'Prince Planet' was thought to be lost (until film prints were found at a flea market in the 90s) and why 'The Amazing 3' only has a few episodes in circulation, an employee literally pulled the prints out of the garbage can at a CBS affiliate network!!!!


That terrifies me no end. It may be true too. Just the other I day happened to have a nice little chat with a friend of mine about this, and he figured the same thing out. *Does a little research about the topic*: according with various sources, once they moved out of the studios (those are still on rent, would you believe it?) no tape was left behind, but they also seemed pretty careless about the live action programs that were shot in there. So, Im now pretty sure that the eleven seasons of live actions shows are gone -except for a few leaks of someone´s dusty VHS-.

If they actually threw those tapes in the trash, I will be REALLY mad.

About The Amazing 3... I wonder what exactly comes to your mind to you actually think that the tapes have to go on the garbage. I´d take them home If I ever have the chance, man. That´s sick.

Seriously, I cant imagine a network executive just staring at the poor tapes and calling a janitor to take them to the trash can.

Quote:
So my best idea for you is to actually contact PRAMER, ask if they have these cartoons in their library and if so explain the cultural importance of these Spanish dubbed versions and if they may even be willing to release them to you so you could produce digital back-ups if they have not done so yet.


That would worth a try. I hope they listen to me... something tells me that this information was not supposed to be known outside the company.

Thanks a lot to everyone. I will update this topic if something interesting pops up.



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Last edited by IceDragon on Thu May 29, 2014 12:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mayor West
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Joined: 13 Dec 2013
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Location: Quahog, Rhode Island

PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These are all excellent comments!

The series I would like is The Great Space Coaster, a fun live action/puppet/cartoon short show from the US in the early '80s. At least I know they have all the originals and are working on restoration, I couldn't imagine the amount of suck if somebody just binned them years ago! http://tgscoaster.com is a fan resource for the show.

Please share any links you can find! The more people know about these shows, the better. Very Happy Also, SharpFork's suggestion of writing them can't hurt.

As always, good luck!


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MacGyver
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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
In fact, I could link you to the very few that I found so far, if you wish

Sure! If you've got some Youtube links or something, I'm sure lots of folks on here would be interested in seeing them.[/url]



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"I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man comes to the Father but by me." - Jesus (John 14:6)

"You can do anything you want to do if you put your mind to it."- MacGyver

"Thunder...Thunder....Thunder...ThunderCats...HOOOO!!!!!!"- Lion-O
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IceDragon
Totally Bitchin'


Joined: 03 Apr 2014
Posts: 479
Location: Argentina

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MacGyver wrote:
Quote:
In fact, I could link you to the very few that I found so far, if you wish

Sure! If you've got some Youtube links or something, I'm sure lots of folks on here would be interested in seeing them.[/url]


Well, I have a little selection for you all now:

Let´s start with Mikami: The Ghost Sweeper. This is a serie I used to hate back on the day, but now I found it pretty funny. The voice acting is great on this one, the jokes are funny, and its not as naughty as you would expect.

Here is the third episode on spanish (luckily somebody took the job of uploading this... and I guess these are the same ones that once were on Magic Kids): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eR9LYZa4CE

I also managed to find another great toon of the time: this is Coconiel (locally translated as CocoMiel)... all I know is that its a belgium toon, and it was on in between the programs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLk66cOPG3s. I loved it

And here is when it gets really weird:

I wouldnt expect this in a millon years but... I just found three versions of my favorite Kissyfur´s episode: «We are the Swamp». That´s the magic of the internet, I thought I had a little chance of putting my hands over one of them, let alone three, but that´s what happens man.

So this is perfect because I found them on both English and Spanish (plus a pretty cool german version). So... let´s compare them.

Surprisingly, the german one was far superior over its spanish and english counterparts. The english one does a great job as always, and the spanish one just not worth the trouble in this particular case (im truly sorry, but it´s true, none of the voices suits it´s character in a proper way -with the exception of Gus-).

Why do I think the german version it´s superior? because Flo and only for her!. Her voice actress did a terrific job there, and she can range all the way from really sweet to pure evil with no problems. You can just «see» the evil person that lies within just by listen to her once. That is a true sign of quality if I ever saw one (not that the english dub doesn't do the same thing in a good way, it is just that... the german Flo is far more realistic).

Im putting the links on here for those who want to check them out:

Kissyfur: Tekenfilm (german): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1mcUGqMbvs

Kissyfur: We are the Swamp (english): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oa9eEwi7yQ

Kissyfur: La Sequía (obviously in spanish Razz): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ3MxEw-4q0

I have plenty more, and Im going to keep them coming as soonest as I remember where they are Razz

EDIT:

Quote:
[quote="Mayor West"]These are all excellent comments!

The series I would like is The Great Space Coaster, a fun live action/puppet/cartoon short show from the US in the early '80s. At least I know they have all the originals and are working on restoration, I couldn't imagine the amount of suck if somebody just binned them years ago! http://tgscoaster.com is a fan resource for the show.

Please share any links you can find! The more people know about these shows, the better. Very Happy Also, SharpFork's suggestion of writing them can't hurt.

As always, good luck!


You mean this one?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sw0QzmbsFaY If so, I am liking it right away.

And of course I will share everything I can find Smile

And yes, those were all excellent comments. Sorry if I didn't mention it before.

Good thing I can write to PRAMER in spanish, because otherwise that would take a LOOOONG time Laughing



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MacGyver
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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very nice! Thanks for the links. Very Happy Cool



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"I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man comes to the Father but by me." - Jesus (John 14:6)

"You can do anything you want to do if you put your mind to it."- MacGyver

"Thunder...Thunder....Thunder...ThunderCats...HOOOO!!!!!!"- Lion-O
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Mayor West
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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IceDragon wrote:


You mean this one?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sw0QzmbsFaY If so, I am liking it right away.



BOOM! Now you know! Cool


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IceDragon
Totally Bitchin'


Joined: 03 Apr 2014
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Location: Argentina

PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mayor West wrote:
IceDragon wrote:


You mean this one?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sw0QzmbsFaY If so, I am liking it right away.



BOOM! Now you know! Cool


I got to be honest: that was one of the best thing I have seen in a while. I dont know what it is, but there´s definetely something unique about it... probably the succesfull mix between puppets, live action performances and cartoons... but Im gonna put my money on the music cues. That show is certainly rich with all the tunes it uses.

I truly enjoyed every second of it, and now I can see why you like it so much.

Oh, and btw... the video included some toy commercials from its time. What an epic set of things!

And for some ontopic updates:

I just found this pretty cool scans from the old TV Guide. Those are the schedules from the very first Magic Kids and Big Channel grids:

http://i.imgur.com/2C2va.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/SirAi.jpg

^ See in the top left corner? that's Cablin, another one of the cartoon pioneers.

http://i.imgur.com/OZ5tr.jpg

I have plenty more updates to make before going to bed tonight. I hope I can do it all.

BTW: The source for all that images is Foromedios.

Ok so, this is "A jugar con Hugo" a contest show from the time. It was really popular though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9nBX2bzi3I

And this one is "Nivel X". If any of you had seen "Video Power" before, then this gonna look somehow familiar:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWPVfni1Qzs

Im gonna look for cartoons now. But that might take some time, so enjoy those in the meantime.



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IceDragon
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I finally got an update to share... God it took so long!.

And why´s that? well... for one, they only have two sources of contact: One is a FB page for their employees to show off they work there Laughing (no, seriously xD), and the other one it´s a proper contact page... but getting their e-mail to work was another story (it was my personal hell actually). But yeah, I finally succeeded that task xD

Now, while I almost died of frustration, I accidentally found out that there is another company with pretty similar inventory (they only broadcast early on the morning) named: "Z-TV". In fact, those guys have got cartoons from not only Magic-Kids, but Fox Kids as well. And on top of that, I recently saw some bootleg/fan-made DVDs featuring some of these cartoons (and they ain´t half bad actually, though a little crammed of episodes. The front cover artwork it´s awesome too).

And on top of THAT, some of this toons are ALSO popping up on Youtube as well (they weren't there a couple of years ago, I swear). Maybe this quest is getting somewhere, who knows? (I will have to wait for an official answer, though).



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Mayor West
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is good news, keep us posted!


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MacGyver
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great- glad to hear you're making progress. Smile Cool



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IceDragon
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I finally went for it and - out of curiosity - I bought one of those DVDs I mentioned before. The one containing the two seasons of Slam Dunk to be exact.

If you look above, at the first post in this thread, you will see that I mentioned that animé as the one that made me realize that Magic Kids was mortally wounded, because they took it off the air at the peak of it´s popularity (not to mention, I was really pissed off about it, because the thing hooked me in a way no other cartoon ever could).

So anyway, let me tell you something: *deep breath* being able to pick it up exactly where I left off was beyond epic. It's been thirteen years and I still like it like the first time I saw it (also, being able to see how the story resolves was epic too). I have already played a little marathon through the whole thing, and even when my eyes are burning in orange and red, and I can't quite remember where my room is (Razz) I am planning to do it again as time allows (there were 101 episodes!).

I was a little skeptical about how this disc was going to be (I was expecting low quality videos and audio problems to say the least) but It turned out almost professionally made. There were some flaws, but no deal breakers were found. And on top of that, the price was just amazingly cheap ($40 of my currency).

Oh, and I almost forgot: Slam Dunk still holds the crown as It still has the better dubbing around. Every character sounds just perfect and the voices suits them perfectly... I wish they would hire the same team for other cartoons as well. Their job Its THAT good.

So anyway, I'm really pleased now Razz



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice! Glad you were able to relive some fond memories. Smile Cool



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