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Was He-Man Dirty?
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Bilbo
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:38 am    Post subject: Was He-Man Dirty? Reply with quote

My parents were against He-Man and thought it was a deviant, diabolical cartoon. All my friends had the toys and I didn't. I was a good kid and agreed w/ them. It didn't bother me. I didn't really care for He-Man anyways.

Do you guys think it was some kind of deviant, subversive attempt to pervert children? There were rumors that it was created by Nazis as He-Man had an iron cross on his harness. The thing I thought was weird was Tela had a belt w/ what looked like junk hanging down the front.

As a kid, I laughed at that and thought it strange. Now at age 37, I still think it was weird.


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MacGyver
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also never watched He-Man as a kid. My parents didn't like it and I didn't watch it- but I remember getting as far as the opening credits and having to change the channel- lol. Laughing
But it was just as well- a number of kids at my school were big into the show and the toys and all, but I got over it. And I found ThunderCats instead and loved that.
I think the main thing about He-Man was the portrayal of magic and the whole "masters of the universe" title- not to mention his proclamation of "having the power". Sorry, Prince Adam- but only Jesus has the power ultimately! (And no facetiousness there- I definitely believe that. Cool )
I don't know if the show was really dirty in any other way- but my parents were really careful about magic and how it was portrayed. And in the long run, I'm glad that they were careful about it- because I see as I get older how much subversive stuff is slipped into TV in general that parents need to be careful about.
(Sorry to any He-Man fans out there- I'm not trying to diss your show. Just saying that was my experience with it.)



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Bilbo
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right on MacGyver!

There are people out there who want to influence children in a bad way. Disney has always had problems w/ artists sneaking in subliminal messages like penises in trees. Well, maybe it was a joke to them but not cool nontheless.

As far as witchcraft goes, I have a real problem w/ Harry Potter. Kids have a lot worse problems nowadays then we did growing up. The last thing they need is witchcraft shoved down their throats.

Case in point, a couple of years ago when a Harry Potter movie came out, it was extremely popular. A bunch of friends from my church were going to see it. And, I go to a pretty conservative church. I refused to go and told them how I feel about Harry Potter movies. Some laughed saying I was too serious. Others started to think about it. Sure enough, when someone looked up showtimes on their phone, there was an ad: "Get your free limited edition cauldren".

They were agast and realised I was right. Most of agreed w/ my conviction and did not see the movie. Some went anyways but maybe they will wake up some day. You have to be dilligent about these matters.

I guess we were lucky to have good parents.


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MacGyver
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, Bilbo- I'm certainly glad God blessed me with the parents I have.
And I think particularly for me as a Christian, I have to be really wary with what I watch- even things that may seem innocuous enough. But that's just the trick- it doesn't seem like it's that bad...but then again, maybe it really is. I try to use Philippians 4:8 for a litmus test. Cool



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bogz
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey whats this about? He-man programs gives moral lessons at the end of each episode, teaching kids the values of being an obedient child. even skeletor shows a positive attitude, he is very optimistic and doesnt give up. even though He-man alway twarts his schemes he is still optimistic that his next scheme will succed. hahaha


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MacGyver
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

True. But the concern here was more of the way the lessons were presented and the way magic and sorcery was portrayed. For me as a Christian, I know The Bible says to stay away from witchcraft and such things. So everyone needs to use discretion over what they allow themselves to dwell on. Philippians 4:8 is a good litmus test. And as it says in Proverbs - As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he.



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bogz
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

come on guys, heman never hurts anybody, even the bad guys werent hurt. as for the magic, it was needed to justify where he's powers came from. He- man even have a cross on his chest. he's a good guy. give him a break, i am a good christian because of the lessons he tought me when i was a kid


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Bilbo
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Satan is a strategist and has had 1,000s of years to observe man and plan ways to lead people astray. He usually works in subtle and gradual ways. Little things in the media add up to twist a whole generation.


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smurfwreck
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just wanted to add some thoughts to this topic, but I want to preface it by saying that I'm not taking any shots at anyone's beliefs, nor do I want to start an arguments over faith. That said...

Personally, I think if one were to dig through the various 80s cartoon properties, they'd be hard-pressed to find a show that was instilled with more Christian beliefs and values. Masters of the Universe was written with the ideal to teach children that violence is never the answer, even when confronting violence from others. You can see this in the shifting of focus from the toys to the eventual cartoon. The original character design of the character from Mattel was done by a guy named Roger Sweet who had envisioned something along the lines of Conan the Barbarian for kids. In fact, at the time Mattel was in talks to produce a line of action figures based on the Conan film. If you read Sweets book, Mastering the Universe, you'll see that he belies his assertion that he was just a good guy that got screwed out of the profits and notoriety of the He-Man toy line, and in fact illustrates his brutish nature and bullying tendencies. He wanted the He-Man character to be harsh, brutal and violent, more in the realm of what we'd see from a character like Rambo.

When Filmation took on the project to adapt the Masters of the Universe toy line to an animated form, Lou Scheimer made certain that most, if not all of this was stripped from the character. They were bound to stick to the design aesthetic, which called for his Power Sword and muscled physique, but the tone and heart of the character were completely changed to reflect some strong Christian ideals. He-Man and his friends never confront situations with violence, and if they do it's only used as a means to show why violence is wrong. His sword is never drawn against a foe, only used as a tool to find a peaceful way out of a situation (like smashing a boulder to create an exit in a mountain to avoid a violent confrontation. He used his strength to literally move mountains, but only to push the enemy away, never to harm.

Similarly, with the "magical" aspects of the series, these aren't meant to promote any sort of deviation in belief or that there are substitute deity's. It's there to typically to metaphorically illustrate the transformation of Prince Adam into He-Man, the inner good that lies within us all. The majority of the rest of the hocus pocus is usually technology based or villainous.

Again, I'm not posting to try and change your minds. Taking the view that anything even potentially objectionable could be the subtle work of Satan is an impossible stance to argue against. Though I would like to point to the Author C.S. Lewis, who is not only a very devout Christian, but he's written many book series featuring magic (most notably the Narnia books) that Christians celebrate. The idea of magic and sorcery is not evil, it's the practice of the dark arts. Hopefully as fans of any 80s cartoons we should know that watching them does not mean that we'll imitate what we see on screen.

I'm posting to give my thoughts, and share my own experience with the show, which instilled in me a strong sense of kindness and treating all others like I would like to be treated.



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MacGyver
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very nice and insightful post, smurfwreck. Thanks for your comments on this issue.
I agree with you in that we can take positive values from many forms of media, including 1980s cartoons. I do think He-Man demonstrates some good values that would very much align with Christianity.
One of my main cautions on this is to be careful of the portrayal of magic, which as you pointed out was used more so for the villians' deeds and for Prince Adam's transformation into He-Man.
That could even be a metaphor in itself, especially seeing as how Adam is the first man who God created, and in Adam's fall, we all fell.
Romans 5 and 1 Corinthians 15 in The Bible both explain death was handed down to all of humanity through the sin of Adam and Eve. And Jesus Christ is described as a second Adam who brings life to everyone through His death and Resurrection.
I'm not sure if I could see He-Man as a Christ figure, but I could figuratively see Prince Adam as a Christian- with the literal transformation he has on the show turning into He-Man mirroring the spiritual transformation Christ brings when He comes to dwell in a person's heart and reigns.
This might be extrapolating too much, but I think a lot of popular media contain some Christian ideas (as well as ideas from a variety of world religions to be sure).
C.S. Lewis is a great example of a Christian man who used magic and myths and legends to convey greater spiritual truth through "The Chronicles of Narnia" and to some degree in his Space trilogy as well.
Lewis is one of my Christian heroes in fact. Very Happy
So the main concern is the question of who truly "has the power" and who is the "master of the universe"? The show on the surface might seem to be exalting He-Man to this status over God. However, if the character can be seen as a Christ figure, then the status is fitting as it would be acknowleding God as the only One who truly has the power and is the Master of the universe.
1 Thessalonians 5:21-22 says to "Test everything. Hold on to the good. Avoid every appearance of evil."
So that is what I try to follow and thus appreciate the good values I can take from He-Man and be careful to avoid every appearance of evil on the show. (Of course, that is just for one example, as the verses apply to everything in life.)
I hope I've made sense in what I'm trying to say. I didn't mean to be bashing He-Man as an evil show or any such thing. However, as I posted earlier, this was one of the forbidden shows for me as a kid. And I respect my parents for being careful in what their kids viewed. Perhaps they were stringent in some things, but it is very easy to become complacent and allow more and more things to seep in that shouldn't be there. So it is a good idea to keep up a close guard.
But for fans of the show, Christian or otherwise, I think there are some good values that can be taken from the show (which Lou Scheimer typically instilled in most all of his shows) and for that, I commend the show. As smurfwreck pointed out, it taught him the values of kindness and doing unto others as you would have them do unto you- and of course, that's exactly what Jesus taught in Matthew 7:12 and Luke 6:31.
And at the same time, I can also understand people's concerns about the show (again, Christian or otherwise) and I think it is good to be careful about what you watch. But everyone has to make their own decisions regarding these matters of course. Romans 14 also talks a lot about this matter for Christians, when some choose to indulge in some things and some choose not to because of personal convictions- but both are still covered under the grace of Christ. But of course, it's not a license to indulge into sin. But that gets into a much deeper theological matter there. Smile
One last thing I want to mention- Philippians 4:8 is my litmus test for such matters. If it can fall into the category of being something that's "true, noble, right, pure, lovely, admirable, excellent or praiseworthy"- then I want to think on such things. Whatever draws me closer to God rather than pulls me away.
When I held aloft the old rugged cross and confessed the truth of God's Word (Romans 10:9), "By the power of what happened at the Hill of the Skull"- I am a Christian. Very Happy I have the power of Christ at work within me. And Jesus is The Master of the Universe. Cool



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"You can do anything you want to do if you put your mind to it."- MacGyver

"Thunder...Thunder....Thunder...ThunderCats...HOOOO!!!!!!"- Lion-O
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bogz
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i agree with smurfwreck. even skeletor shows goodness in the christmas episode of He-man. the kindness he have shown to a stray dog was really heartwarming, considering that he was a bad guy, yet he shows that even he have goodness inside of him. you should all think about that.


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MacGyver
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow- Skeletor was nice to a stray dog? That's a nice reach for him then. Razz



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HerbertWest
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That cross on He-Man's chest doesn't look like a Nazi symbol. Some cartoons do have meanings you know.


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MacGyver
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never thought of He-Man's cross as looking like anything from the Nazis. If anything, it looks more like the cross of Christ. I can definitely see a possible Christ figure metaphor there- particularly with his given name being Prince Adam who transforms into He-Man. It would be similar to Superman's role as a Christ figure. (which is definitely there, as confirmed by numerous comic book writers and movie script writers, etc.) Interesting...



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"You can do anything you want to do if you put your mind to it."- MacGyver

"Thunder...Thunder....Thunder...ThunderCats...HOOOO!!!!!!"- Lion-O
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ReComposed
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MacGyver wrote:
Wow- Skeletor was nice to a stray dog? That's a nice reach for him then. Razz


In the Christmas special. He winds up stranded in the company of two children who've rescued a stray dog, and not only does he give them cloaks because it's cold, when it looks as if the dog will have to be left behind, he picks it up and carries it. It's totally heartwarming.



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MacGyver
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haha- wow. I guess it shows that even the coldest of hearts can be changed- and I definitely believe that. As a Christian, I certainly believe the love of Christ reaches everyone. Very Happy Cool



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He-Man Prime-O
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He-Man was a great cartoon that ended with morality tales pointing out parts of the episode and how to make sure kids respect their parents and to stay out of trouble, go to school, not do drugs or steal.

80s He-Man only ever used his sword to defend himself and others and never harmed his opponents. He was always helping people sending a message to kids to go out of your way to help others.

Your parents must have been mis informed on this show. Sad to hear you missed out on it during your child hood. As a kid I looked forward to it every Saturday and loved each and every character.


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MacGyver
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, for me, my parents were informed enough on the show to know that it involved magic and as I said, they were careful about that and its portrayal, as I said earlier. And as I've gotten older, I appreciate that more (though I have to admit being a bit bummed at the time as a kid- because you don't understand those things at that age.) But when you get older, you do understand how much junk is out there on TV now and when parents do need to careful of what they let kids watch (and I'm not saying the '80s He-Man is junk here.)
But I saw bits of it as a kid and I'm okay with it now- lol - and I do appreciate the moral values He-Man stood for- and that's good. But for me, I think it depends on the age level of kids and how well they can separate fantasy from reality and so forth on how much magic you want them to be exposed to. When they're older, at least old enough to see the magic involved in fairy tales and so forth- then yeah, I can see that. But I was really, really young when it was on in my youth.
Anyway- as I said earlier, I don't think He-Man was dirty necessarily- but there are some aspects that I would be careful for young children, as I've pointed out here.



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Aurora
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes when looking at fantasy worlds, it comes down to what the parents think the child can handle. I've known devout religious families who took a stand against any practice of witchcraft and magic, yet a couple of the families would let their children watch shows with it so long as they could talk about it and the children weren't getting any wrong ideas. One family had a daughter who had a penchant for getting her head deep into fantasy worlds, which is awesome, but they were more cautious than the others about what they fed her imagination.

Then there was another family who seemed unreasonable in rejecting anything they even heard a rumor about being evil or demonic or subversive or such. If someone feels their faith or the faith of their family can be shaken by something, it's well within their prerogative to push that thing away and I'm not going to insist otherwise. But some try to push their personal views on gray areas on others, and I feel that's where I would draw the line. Offering their opinion is one thing, but insisting everyone follow it is another.

Since so much comes down to how an individual sees things and what that individual takes away from the experience, I think parents should be thoughtful and interactive, rather than try to shelter their children too much. The kids are going to eventually run into subversive/evil things. I'm of the opinion that it's better to give them the tools to help deal with it when they come across it and keep the lines of communication open so they'll come to you instead of hiding them entirely from it. If they're used to talking to you about these things now, it will be easier for them to talk to you later.

He-Man on the surface has some scary, evil looking imagery, so I can understand parents being reluctant to allow it. That said, I think many kids can watch it with parental supervision to help them see the good in it and to learn lessons from the bad. Fantasy worlds help us see people put in unusual situations and how they can cope with them, so I wouldn't rule out fantasy entirely simply because of the existence of magic.

I think I'm about to just ramble and go off topic, so I'm going to stop here. XD



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primexx07
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 4:38 am    Post subject: Re: Was He-Man Dirty? Reply with quote

one of the best cartoons of all time. He-man and the masters of the universe.
I don't think was he man dirty?


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